Cold Steel

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Posts by Cold Steel

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  24

  Emblem Takers Mentally Unstable?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  onthewayout wrote: of course, for quite awhile (and probably still), congregations have been viewing any relatively young (maybe under 50 or even 60) partakers as mentally unstable and watchtower ignores such people anyway and says they must listen to the elders.

  is this correct?

  ever since the emblem-takers were given emeritus status as members of the faithful and discreet slave, have they been relegated to standard membership?

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  Cold Steel

  OnTheWayOut wrote: Of course, for quite awhile (and probably still), congregations have been viewing any relatively young (maybe under 50 or even 60) partakers as mentally unstable and Watchtower ignores such people anyway and says they must listen to the elders.

  Is this correct? Ever since the emblem-takers were given emeritus status as members of the Faithful and Discreet Slave, have they been relegated to standard membership? What is the purpose of the “Heavenly Class” of people on the earth? Do you know any of the “elect” who have left “the Truth”?

  Or do you know any Heavenly Class members at your KH? How are they generally regarded — as crackpots, holy, rabbinic? If you’re of the Earthly Class and your best friend believes he or she is part of the Heavenly Class, if you were a faithful member, would you tend to believe or disbelieve them?

  Finally, why is the Governing Body so convinced that the numbers of the Heavenly Class should be diminishing? Doesn’t anyone have the right to be in that body, regardless of what time they lived? Are they still considered part of the FDS?

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  15

  Funny Video - Phone call to Bethel

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video is hilarious and very, very clever.

  youtuber, theunwitness makes a call to hq and asks the question "can i talk to anthony morris?

  " and uses matthew 18:15-17 as his reason.

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  Cold Steel

  Yes, he said he would call back and inquired about the best time to do so, but then he kept yapping and trying to egg the secretary on.

  When I call someone and they're not there, I don't hang on and start a chat with the secretary. The secretary is not your friend. He or she is put there specifically to weed people like us out. Those guys in the Governing Body don't want to chat with the general membership. They see themselves as latter day apostles (though not really called or ordained). Jehovah just sort of picked them, like Jeremiah, before they were born. If one wanted to call and ask them where and how they received their callings, that would be a much more insightful question and more germane to the topic at hand. But you have to reach them before you can ask them.

  And that old brother isn't about to connect anyone who seems like they want a debate! As Unwitness said himself, the pope wouldn't take a call like that; nor would Billy Graham or any other insulated religious leader. The members of the Governing Body believe themselves to have the most important callings in the world, greater than the pope or the late Graham. They're big fish in a little pond and they're used to being sought after with respect and a certain amount of awe. They aren't there to talk to members. That's what the elders are for.
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  15

  Funny Video - Phone call to Bethel

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video is hilarious and very, very clever.

  youtuber, theunwitness makes a call to hq and asks the question "can i talk to anthony morris?

  " and uses matthew 18:15-17 as his reason.

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  Cold Steel

  O, c'mon, Steve, Unwitness specifically told the secretary it was in regards to Matthew 18:15-17. Why didn't he just say, "No thank you, it's a personal call. I'll call back"? By letting the old fellow know he wasn't a personal friend of Mr. Morris, he kicked in the man's call screening mode. It's his job to protect the boss from crank calls and strangers who may be...I dunno...videographing something for YouTube.

  All in all, he did his job.

  To get a better chance of connecting, Unwitness could have said, "Oh, no thanks. My call is personal. Just tell him that...oh, never mind. I want it to be a surprise. I haven't talked to him in some time. So I'll just call back tomorrow. Mom said I should touch base with him if I was in town, that he'd probably want to talk to me. So can you not mention it?"

  Can't say how long Morris would stay on the phone with him, but at least his chances would be better than if he started quoting scripture.

  -------------

  P.S. -- He can also call the secretary back and, if he can't get through, say, "Yeh...tell him that Vito says if he doesn't pay back the money he owes him, that Amageddon is gonna be rollin' around even sooner than he expects...catch my meanin'? I mean, I don't wanna haft to roll no fish in a newspaper and have it delivered to his family, capisce? You borrow money, you pay it back, right? Er...by the way, what'd you say your name was?"
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  9

  New Light - How would you feel reading this as a JW?

  by Ginx in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "scripture can be likened to a lamp which illuminates the truth.

  it's mission is to shed the light of truth.

  when a brighter light appears, the mission of the old one fades.

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  Cold Steel

  Simply consider how many Christian sects today bank their exclusive legitimacy on the foundation of having returned to the Bible. The Restored Church of God, an adventist root that sprang out of the Worldwide Church of God, claims to be the sole legitimate church on Earth, and that it is the only one authorized to administer “the truth.” Its website proclaims: “The Restored Church of God, led by Pastor General David C. Pack, is commissioned by Jesus Christ to: Announce the good news of the kingdom of God to all nations (Matt. 24:14), including warning the modern nations descended from ancient Israel of impending national punishment (Isa. 58:1-2; Ezek. 33:1-19) [and] feed God’s flock called out of the world and into His Church (John 21:15-17; I Pet. 5:1-2) [It] is committed to freely offering—through the most extensive biblically based website in the world, rcg.org—thorough and comprehensive PLAIN UNDERSTANDING on virtually every teaching of the Bible, small and great.”

  The churches of Christ, likewise, makes the same claim. Started by Alexander Campbell, it proclaims, “Where the Bible speaks, we speak! Where the Bible is silent, we are silent!” Its website states, “We are undenominational and have no central headquarters or president. The head of the church is none other than Jesus Christ himself.”

  There are numerous other claimants out there, some that are apostolic Pentecostals, others that, like the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, that simply claim the scriptures were opened up to them. And often their legitimacy isn’t based on God’s calling them the way He did anciently, but in far more discreet ways—so discreet that the way they know they’re on the right track is because, well, just consider the contenders! What other church, they say, has such perfect doctrines that square perfectly with the scriptures? Ha, none! And in many cases, you’re discovering them is dependent on your very salvation. I’ve heard many evangelicals declare that anyone who dies an atheist, Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, even Catholic, is hell bound, and I don’t mean just annihilation. I mean you better be paid up on your fire insurance!

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  19

  Do the witnesses baptize in Jesus name?

  by runForever in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-christians/.

  the third bullet point there claims they baptize in jesus name.

  i know the baptism questions never mention jesus once.. .

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  Cold Steel

  According to one Bible dictionary, the Greek word for “name” is frequently used in the Bible “for all that a name implies, of authority, character, rank, majesty, power, excellence, etc., of everything that the name covers.” Jesus’ name, therefore, stands for the majestic and vast executive authority that Jehovah God has entrusted to him. Jesus himself stated: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.” (Matthew 28:18)

  This is most likely because Yahweh and Jesus are the same. All recent biblical scholarship on pre-Josiah reforms points to the fact that Yahweh was the preeminent Son of the Father God, El, El Elyon or Elohim. In other words, Yahweh was viewed as the mediator between man and the Father. Thus, when Moses spoke to God "face to face," it was the premortal Jesus he was speaking to. The titles (King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, etc.) and attributes of both Yahweh and Jesus are identical in the Old and New Testaments. The adventists have always taught that this was because of their "oneness," but the Jews understood Jesus to the letter; that's why they tried to kill him.
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  15

  Funny Video - Phone call to Bethel

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video is hilarious and very, very clever.

  youtuber, theunwitness makes a call to hq and asks the question "can i talk to anthony morris?

  " and uses matthew 18:15-17 as his reason.

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  Cold Steel

  15 “If your brother or sister [ a ] sins, [ b ] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ [ c ] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

  I'm not sure what Listener's point is regarding the above. The scripture here states that any two Christians ought to be able to work out their differences. If they can't work something out, take the matter to the church and seek arbitration there. If your adversary refuses to listen even to the church, then you have some justification for not associating with him/her any further.

  It does not mean pick up the phone and call the leading authorities of the church. That's why there are local authorities and general authorities. The idea is not to take the issue to an apostle or general leader of the church; rather, you take the matter to your local authorities (not the courts). If your adversary will not take their judgment to heart, then don't have anything to do with that person again. As Christians, we still are under obligation to forgive. "I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive; but unto you it is required to forgive all men."

  To call church headquarters and expect general leaders of the church to handle it is to bypass the chain of command that was established. Moses had to be taught delegation by Jethro. Likewise, the ancient leaders of the church ordained bishops and elders to handle such matters on a local level. I see no reason to believe it an admonition to take one's personal disputations all the way to the top.
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  45

  About the ten plagues in Egypt

  by runForever in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alot of people are saying god is cruel for killing the firstborns and animals and people in the ten plagues.

  but didn't god achieve his goal of making nations and people be in fear of him?.

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  Cold Steel

  I challenge Cold Steel to present a SINGLE shred of archeological evidence pointing to a group of hundreds of thousands of wanderers spending decades camped in the Sinai desert. Go ahead, I'll make popcorn while I'm waiting.

  I hope your popcorn is ready.

  First, I don't care what the biblical scholars believe or not. The best evidence was done in James Cameron's documentary entitled, Exodus Decoded, with Simcha Jacobovici.

  Also:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeSHmqSrv5o

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXf2IDS-9g0

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d90NM9tgDQE

  .
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  45

  About the ten plagues in Egypt

  by runForever in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alot of people are saying god is cruel for killing the firstborns and animals and people in the ten plagues.

  but didn't god achieve his goal of making nations and people be in fear of him?.

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  Cold Steel

  There is too much evidence of the Bible's early writing like those in Genesis being of older Sumerian and Babylonian Myths. There is also a lot of evidence that the god gods of the Bible were actually gods from the pantheon of the Canaanites El, Baal Hadad, etc. Motifs and writing found in cities like Ugarit are way too familiar and like those in the bible to be just a coincidence for me. And finally there's way too many contradictions in the bible too, example Mathew writes Jesus was born in Bethlehem but John says Galilee.

  See:

  Does the Old Testament Teach Absolute Monotheism?
  Part 1/Part 2

  Also:

  

  The Jehovah's Witnesses were incorrect. According to Methodist scholar Margaret Barker, YHWH was the preeminent son of El, not the Father God Himself. Thus, when Jesus announced Himself the Only Begotten Son of the Father, and the great I AM, he was telling the Jews that he was the God of their fathers, Jehovah. But he was not El Elyon, the Father God.

  Most biblical scholars see in the earlier traditions a more rounded version of deity than was previously known. But those outlooks came from the Israelites and were recorded by the Babylonians. Still, without original documents, no one can prove anything.
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  45

  About the ten plagues in Egypt

  by runForever in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alot of people are saying god is cruel for killing the firstborns and animals and people in the ten plagues.

  but didn't god achieve his goal of making nations and people be in fear of him?.

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  Cold Steel

  Are you saying that a person has to believe the Bible in order to believe there is a God?

  No. A person can believe in any god or set of gods without the Bible to guide them. If fact, people can believe anything they wish.

  Is it possible that a person can believe there is a God yet does not accept that the Bible is the Word of God?

  Yes.

  Is it possible for a person to believe there is a God yet does not understand what the Bible is saying, or even know that any Bible exists?

  Again, yes.

  The Bible did not come into existence until many centuries after the time of Jesus (=Joshua).

  Well, I wouldn't say "many" centuries. I'd say several. The Bible came into being around the fourth century, A.D., the Qur'an in the seventh century and the Book of Mormon in 1830.

  There is no universally accepted Bible, so does that mean there is no God?

  No. Christians don't accept the Qur'an, and the Muslims don't accept the Book of Mormon or the Bible.
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  45

  About the ten plagues in Egypt

  by runForever in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alot of people are saying god is cruel for killing the firstborns and animals and people in the ten plagues.

  but didn't god achieve his goal of making nations and people be in fear of him?.

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  Cold Steel

  That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

  But being ignorant of evidence isn't the same thing as there being no evidence.

  The Moses story appears to be taken from Sumerian myths. All this from a quick search on Google.

  Still, just because Babylonian clay tablets may be older than copies of Jewish papyrus doesn't mean the former was first and the latter second. We would have to have the originals of both. Based on the substance of the accounts, the biblical stories sound far more credible to me. For example, there are flood accounts from all over the earth. Either the entire earth was flooded, or peoples brought the accounts with them.

  The core of Deuteronomy (12-26) was likely written in the time of Josiah....

  Was likely?? According to whom? Josiah brought about his reforms based on the discovery of an old account of Deuteronomy found amongst the scriptures. His rather drastic actions were based on the reading of this book.